tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6079093007080805534.post8531470155424944627..comments2023-10-11T08:08:53.804-07:00Comments on Pet Health and Nutrition: Faith based feeding and the defense of scienceDr. Susan Wynnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09673334170143376314noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6079093007080805534.post-83099186871792975322016-10-04T07:04:52.357-07:002016-10-04T07:04:52.357-07:00Hi Shawna:
Yes, she did well for 8 years and seve...Hi Shawna:<br /><br />Yes, she did well for 8 years and seven months. But you give no information on the progression of the kidney disease, such as what stage she was when the oral infection occurred, or any other confounding issues such as treatments, other conditions, monitoring labwork, etc. If the kidney disease was late stage 2 or greater, it's certainly possible that it impacted her immune function and helped the infection go systemic.<br /><br />But the real point here is that we have an n-of-1. How do we know that she wouldn't have lived even longer with proper dietary treatment? This is why we do prospective studies - and the studies show that dietary manipulation are the most important way to increase longevity and quality of life for kidney patients. <br /><br />Please be aware that I said dietary manipulation - not protein and phosphorus restriction across the board. There definitely comes a time when protein restriction is inappropriate, and what I'm advocating is customizing the diet to the stage of the disease. I think a one-size-fits all approach to kidney disease makes these patients as sick as feeding a high protein diet inappropriately!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6079093007080805534.post-5831599946068648202016-06-17T14:26:32.130-07:002016-06-17T14:26:32.130-07:00Hi Dr. Wynn,
I'm a raw feeder and had a pup w...Hi Dr. Wynn,<br /><br />I'm a raw feeder and had a pup with congenital kidney disease. She had polyuria and polydipsia at just six weeks of age but wasn't diagnosed until 13 months when I took her in to be spayed. I DID mention the excess volume of urine but was told "puppies urinate more". Hers was more than "more" though. I got her at nine weeks of age and at that time overnight she would completely FILL a high end potty pad to the point that I'd have to line the bottom with newspapers to catch the overflow.<br /><br />Anywho, she ate balanced raw from 9 weeks to 13 months when diagnosed. I fiddled with her diet and then blood work done every three months for the next year. At the end of that year I put her back on the high protein (and yes, high phosphorus) diet she ate her first year of life. I also ended up using acacia fiber and probiotics for enteric dialysis as well as MULTIPLE supplements.<br /><br />Audrey lived to eight years and seven months and passed away from an oral infection (bad tooth) that went systemic. I thought it was the progression of KD so I did at that point start her on SD canned KD but because it was an infection the diet did not help. She was diagnosed with the infection but the damage had been done.<br /><br />I would NEVER recommend the exact diet I fed Audrey to others but she did marvelously on raw, high protein and phosphorus for many many healthy years.<br /><br />ShawnaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6079093007080805534.post-7556482066635165772012-07-11T04:52:56.270-07:002012-07-11T04:52:56.270-07:00First, raw feeders will tell you that the risk of ...First, raw feeders will tell you that the risk of food borne pathogens is no different between feeding your dog raw chicken and preparing raw chicken for your own cooking purposes. You clean your knives, utensils, and counters and you have dealt with that risk. What they don't take into account is the fact that the raw fed pet is passing these same pathogens into the environment, so I find myself reminding people of this if they have toddlers/babies, very old people or immunesuppressed people in the house.<br /><br />But there is one company that is producing raw meat diets that are high-pressure pasteurized, reducing the the bacteria to very, very low levels. To me, that is the future of raw feeding if you want to reduce the risk of enteropathogen transmission. And for raw feeders who want to claim that pressure pasteurized food isn't raw, well, don't bother. I just don't agree with you. <br /><br />Whether veterinarians like it or not, raw diets are being fed by a very significant percentage of pet owners - the studies I've seen say something like 8% of dog owners. So deal with it. There are ways to safely feed raw that can satisfy us, even if they don't satisfy the most rabid of the raw feeders.Susan G. Wynn, DVMhttp://www.susanwynn.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6079093007080805534.post-35769408229792359452012-07-10T01:38:21.761-07:002012-07-10T01:38:21.761-07:00How, or why, would raw diets catch up when we know...How, or why, would raw diets catch up when we know food borne pathogens and parasites to be a very real concern? Especially when nothing has shown that there are any proven benefits worth the risk of infection and resulting illness? Would like to hear your opinion on this, thanks.Msminnamousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02822794260935232733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6079093007080805534.post-4782908350678302312012-07-10T01:31:26.166-07:002012-07-10T01:31:26.166-07:00None of the supposed benefits have been proven to ...None of the supposed benefits have been proven to be attributed to the meat being raw. For example, the shinier coats are due to a high fat composition of the diet. You could supplement more fat to a cooked diet and get the same result.<br /><br />You're probably already aware of this article but I'll reference it: http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/raw-dog-food-dietary-concerns-benefits-and-risksMsminnamousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02822794260935232733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6079093007080805534.post-79824359283492159022011-01-30T07:11:56.615-08:002011-01-30T07:11:56.615-08:00CathyA, I do not disagree with you.
However, co...CathyA, I do not disagree with you. <br /><br />However, commercial foods have *not* shortened the lifespans of pets - dogs and cats are living longer now than they ever have, and for veterinarians using that as a primary measure of health, commercial foods appear to be a contributing factor. These foods are supported by science that describes at least minimum nutritional requirements, as well, so there is the perception (real or imagined) that science proves these foods to be the best hope for supporting health and longevity.<br /><br />Raw diets, in that context, are new. They will simply not be accepted until there is a longer tradition of safe use, or there is some supporting science. So while faith may play a part in recommending commercial diets instead of homemade or raw diets, there is more to it than that. Raw diets could catch up, but my point here was to illustrate the reasons for resistance by the veterinary community.<br /><br />And the above applies to maintenance diets only. There is good support for feeding low phosphorus diets in renal disease. Anyone who feeds high protein diets to kidney patients (which are high in phosphorus) need to supply some pretty strong scientific proof before I would abandon a proven strategy to increase quality of life and longevity for a kidney patient.Susan G. Wynn, DVMhttp://www.susanwynn.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6079093007080805534.post-42259163290811816082011-01-30T06:50:00.075-08:002011-01-30T06:50:00.075-08:00Susan Wynn said:
Veterinarians and other scientist...Susan Wynn said:<br />Veterinarians and other scientists require more information about cases to be convinced by new information, rightfully addressing all other mitigating factors as is done in properly written, peer reviewed case reports. <br /><br />Ya know, I wish vets took this attitude WRT commercial food. Seems to me it's just as "faith-based" when flogging that Hills in the waiting room.<br /><br />And no vet makes all decisions based solely on properly written, peer reviewed case reports. I've seen case notes in journals. Sample of 2, written up, hardly any background info collected. What is that? Anecdotal.CathyAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6079093007080805534.post-72988596933684937292009-08-21T05:35:48.095-07:002009-08-21T05:35:48.095-07:00I agree that many- probably a majority- of raw fee...I agree that many- probably a majority- of raw feeders start feeding because they are attracted to the philosophies behind raw feeding. The problem is that many pets respond very beautifully to these diets, so they rightfully become believers.<br /><br />I have patients who have been fed raw diets, properly supplemented and reasonably balanced, for many years, living well beyond expected life spans. And I have clients who can take a hard look at their feeding plans if I suggest an illness may be related to the diet, and are willing to test the theory. <br /><br />It's the others - the majority of raw feeders - I worry about. Those who can't see the role of the diet if their animal develops a chronic illness after having been on the diet for awhile are just blind, and I cry for the pets who belong to these people.Dr. Susan Wynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09673334170143376314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6079093007080805534.post-33313706903523695632009-08-12T12:13:25.871-07:002009-08-12T12:13:25.871-07:00Fantastic post Dr. Wynn. As Mark Twain said, &quo...Fantastic post Dr. Wynn. As Mark Twain said, "It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."<br /><br />I think most of us clinicians are wary of ANY claims, be they from fad-diet zealots, pharmaceutical companies, or other clinicians, because we have seen so many different claims disproven given time and appropriate research.<br /><br />There is a particular personality type that seems to be attracted to the raw food diet. I'm not smart enough to figure it out or put it into words, but I think it has to do more with the owner's psychological needs than the pet's nutritional needs.PMFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6079093007080805534.post-6772469556244555062009-07-15T10:27:36.361-07:002009-07-15T10:27:36.361-07:00Thank you for your view point on raw feeding, Dr. ...Thank you for your view point on raw feeding, Dr. Wynn.BanditsBuddies.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07706187576421141572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6079093007080805534.post-64526891642398850342009-07-05T10:14:16.593-07:002009-07-05T10:14:16.593-07:00You raise several very interesting points, Dr. Wyn...You raise several very interesting points, Dr. Wynn. Your comment about the attitude of die-hard raw feeders towards science was particularly insightful. Over the years, I've observed that many pet owners who adhere to the various philosophies of raw feeding (e.g., BARF, prey model, etc.), also embrace alternative practices and treatments that are often based upon faith, not science. <br /><br />In his book, "Why People Believe Weird Things" (Holt Paperbacks, 2002; Chapter 18, page 283), Michael Shermer states that "smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." Perhaps this explains why some die-hard raw feeders excel at promulgating myths about dogs, wolves, animal physiology and nutrition. ;-)<br /><br />Also see: http://www.michaelshermer.com/weird-things/<br /><br />Kind regards,<br />Heidi SchmeckAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com